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  #1  
Old 02-25-2007, 07:07 AM
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Default Concerned

READ THIS FIRST!!! (If you find this top text biased tell me asap)

This thread bring to attention my concerns about EOE and TLAW. There have been many intelligent arguments from both sides and before you make your own opinion on the matter or let your choices be influenced by this thread, it is much advised that you read ALL of it. The thread has not yet come into a conclusion. Those defending the EOE team have presented an argument, yet it is a matter of opinion as to whether it answers concerns presented.
_______________________________________________

Original Post:

I find it slightly disconcerting that EOE, a seemingly competent company, is having trouble raising a measly $129. In the past few months I have begun to question the professional competence of EOE and the Tatsumaki project.

I have been here for almost a year now and the progress achieved has, in my mind, been poor. The amount of evidence to support any progress certainly does not warrant an appeal for money from customers who have already donated large amounts of money. I also find it concerning that people who have pre ordered apparently receive more updates, while regular members seem to be in the dark. I personally find little sense in pre ordering a product when I have very little assurance I will get my money’s worth, if anything at all. It is very disappointing that the company is forced rely on its relatively very small community to carry its financial burden.

Initially I was under the impression that Tatsumaki was being developed by a competent body of developers. The Wiki promised a lot but I am starting to wonder if Tatsumaki will ever be completed. Sykoi you said it yourself, "Once again we're faced with a money problem..." time after time appeals for money are made; unfortunately evidence of progress is not.

The lack of updates certainly contributes to a growing feeling of amateurishness that I feel about EOE and what updates are published are unimpressive and uninteresting. The most significant part of Tatsumaki appears to be the forums and the various mini projects that surround it, many of which are unfinished and/or abandoned. The final straw was when Sykoi asked for help on the website. While this seems somewhat unprofessional itself, the real disappointment was that the website which had apparently been in development for some time was as good as nothing, and all that we are left with is a poor cookie cutter template.

I sincerely hope that I am merely disillusioned by the seeming lack of competence, and that the next few weeks will prove me wrong. I also hope that the community and the developers will take this thread as a serious expression of my concerns, and will not discredit me for presenting my opinion in what I would consider an appropriate manner.
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Last edited by uzshka; 02-27-2007 at 11:22 AM. Reason: Added top text.
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  #2  
Old 02-25-2007, 07:14 AM
Arakawa Nobuaki Arakawa Nobuaki is offline
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Default Re: Concerned

Well, the way I see it...

This is not Blizzard.
This is not Turbine.
This is not even Buka or Valve (when they were still working on HL 1).

It reminds me more of Roma Victor.

The guys here don't have a huge company backing them up, supplying them with manpower and money, like it happens in the big names in the industry. But even Blizzard once started exactly like EOE. Or take the guys who made the first Counter Strike.

I'm also not really sure what kind of great progress you expect within one year. Compare it with any other MMORPG. Let's take Stargate Worlds. There's barely anything new on their site. A few articles, a couple of screenshots and mainly concept art. Not much has changed there either within the last year (and I'm quite sure that the guys at SGW have more manpower and money than EOE).

I'm positive and stick with the Old Badger's idea of patience. Maybe it'll work, maybe it won't. Time will tell. But I refuse to grow grey hair over it.
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Old 02-25-2007, 11:56 AM
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Default Re: Concerned

Quote:
I find it slightly disconcerting that EOE, a seemingly competent company, is having trouble raising a measly $129. In the past few months I have begun to question the professional competence of EOE and the Tatsumaki project.

I have been here for almost a year now and the progress achieved has, in my mind, been poor. The amount of evidence to support any progress certainly does not warrant an appeal for money from customers who have already donated large amounts of money. I also find it concerning that people who have pre ordered apparently receive more updates, while regular members seem to be in the dark. I personally find little sense in pre ordering a product when I have very little assurance I will get my money’s worth, if anything at all. It is very disappointing that the company is forced rely on its relatively very small community to carry its financial burden.

Initially I was under the impression that Tatsumaki was being developed by a competent body of developers. The Wiki promised a lot but I am starting to wonder if Tatsumaki will ever be completed. Sykoi you said it yourself, "Once again we're faced with a money problem..." time after time appeals for money are made; unfortunately evidence of progress is not.

The lack of updates certainly contributes to a growing feeling of amateurishness that I feel about EOE and what updates are published are unimpressive and uninteresting. The most significant part of Tatsumaki appears to be the forums and the various mini projects that surround it, many of which are unfinished and/or abandoned. The final straw was when Sykoi asked for help on the website. While this seems somewhat unprofessional itself, the real disappointment was that the website which had apparently been in development for some time was as good as nothing, and all that we are left with is a poor cookie cutter template.

I sincerely hope that I am merely disillusioned by the seeming lack of competence, and that the next few weeks will prove me wrong. I also hope that the community and the developers will take this thread as a serious expression of my concerns, and will not discredit me for presenting my opinion in what I would consider an appropriate manner.
  • We're all doing this for free, and last year I spent close to $2,000 of my own money to keep Tatsumaki alive
  • Jay, our lead programmer, has a full time job at THQ, a wife, and other things going on in his life... But he still makes time for Tatsumaki when he can.
  • We have had money troubles because we hadn't released an update anywhere for close to a year, simply because we had to fix the problems we found in alpha.
  • We're all busy with numerous things in our own lives... Such as full time jobs, college, and loved ones
  • We currently only have three programmers with the hefty task of programming the ENTIRE GAME by themselves... We're not about to pull an 'Anarchy Online', and release a year earlier than we should with our engine half working, most of the game elements broken, and a horribly unstable server.

We are an independent team of people dedicating all of their free time, money, and hard work... And frankly I'm getting sick and tired of not being respected because of it. I've had bills I needed to pay, and things I've wanted to buy for years... Yet, I've had to put over $2,500 of my own money into Tatsumaki just to keep it alive for the fans since the project was started... We don't HAVE to have a site, we don't HAVE to update you... But we enjoy doing it, so we're going to continue to do it.


all that we are left with is a poor cookie cutter template.
The eyesoute.com's site design is merely temporary until we are able to find an actually well designed one that works... I didn't want to put the community through another month of waiting just to fix up a design... I wanted to be able to release updates as soon as possible, as I knew everyone was getting bored. I've been working 12 hour days to try to get everything in working order on the site, finding more people to help, and raising money so we don't have to sell out and lose all creative control to a publisher or investors.

If we ever decided to sell ourselves to a publisher we would lose all creative control, and Tatsumaki would turn into a WoW clone, simply because thats the most popular MMO right now.
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Last edited by Sykoi; 02-25-2007 at 01:38 PM.
  #4  
Old 02-25-2007, 12:36 PM
Herede Herede is offline
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Default Re: Concerned

Quote:
Originally Posted by uzshka View Post
I find it slightly disconcerting that EOE, a seemingly competent company, is having trouble raising a measly $129. In the past few months I have begun to question the professional competence of EOE and the Tatsumaki project.

I have been here for almost a year now and the progress achieved has, in my mind, been poor. The amount of evidence to support any progress certainly does not warrant an appeal for money from customers who have already donated large amounts of money. I also find it concerning that people who have pre ordered apparently receive more updates, while regular members seem to be in the dark. I personally find little sense in pre ordering a product when I have very little assurance I will get my money’s worth, if anything at all. It is very disappointing that the company is forced rely on its relatively very small community to carry its financial burden.

Initially I was under the impression that Tatsumaki was being developed by a competent body of developers. The Wiki promised a lot but I am starting to wonder if Tatsumaki will ever be completed. Sykoi you said it yourself, "Once again we're faced with a money problem..." time after time appeals for money are made; unfortunately evidence of progress is not.

The lack of updates certainly contributes to a growing feeling of amateurishness that I feel about EOE and what updates are published are unimpressive and uninteresting. The most significant part of Tatsumaki appears to be the forums and the various mini projects that surround it, many of which are unfinished and/or abandoned. The final straw was when Sykoi asked for help on the website. While this seems somewhat unprofessional itself, the real disappointment was that the website which had apparently been in development for some time was as good as nothing, and all that we are left with is a poor cookie cutter template.

I sincerely hope that I am merely disillusioned by the seeming lack of competence, and that the next few weeks will prove me wrong. I also hope that the community and the developers will take this thread as a serious expression of my concerns, and will not discredit me for presenting my opinion in what I would consider an appropriate manner.
You know what uzshka? I understand your concern. I'm not offended by your post, as I find the points you've presented here to be completely legitimate. From the community members' perspective, I can imagine that it seems like we're not making any progress at all. I guess the question you're all asking yourselves after reading uzshka's post is, is this true? Yes and no.

As far as progress goes, the rendering engine has been rewritten from scratch. From the eyes of a mere network programmer, it is designed in a far more logical and efficient way than the old one was. On top of that, the new engine allows for more pleasing visuals than we could hope to get from the old one. Jay has done a great job, especially considering that - as Sykoi previously mentioned - he has a day job at a game programming company and a wife. As you can imagine, however, the rewrite of the engine took a great deal of time. Now, approximately a year after the rewrite begun, the engine is rapidly approaching a state of completion, again, thanks to Jay's efforts.

Pretty much the same thing has been going on on the server side. The old server we used to have would not have been able to handle the vast per-shard player numbers which we are hoping for. The design has been ripped up and reworked several times during the development process, resulting in messy code. The server is, and was, my sole responsibility and I take the blame for the slip-up. I am currently in the process of rewriting the server from scratch, and, hopefully, it will be complete enough for early testing within a few weeks.

The bottom line is: yes; we are making progress - but not as much as we had hoped for, due to the aforementioned set-backs.

The only point that I directly disagree with you on is the one about the website. Sure, the design is not top-notch, but Sykoi certainly has a point - would you rather have waited a few more weeks to have the site up just for a slightly better design? I believe that in the meantime, we would have lost even more fans. The site engine itself is, however, very advanced and secure, and opens up many possibilities we did not have before in terms of content/update distribution and management.
  #5  
Old 02-25-2007, 01:31 PM
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Default Re: Concerned

I'm going to comment on this tomorrow with my own views but i'd just like to say that I think it is very unprofessional and childish for somebody to move this post - something extremely related to Tatsumaki, into the forum, Et Cetera, a forum devoted for topics of usless conversation.

This does nothing more but to further Uzshka's claims of little or no levels of professionalism being excercised by EOE.
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Old 02-25-2007, 01:35 PM
Sykoi Sykoi is offline
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Default Re: Concerned

I moved it here as it didn't discuss Tatsumaki, it discussed Eyes Out Entertainment and the development of Tatsumaki.
The Tatsumaki forum is meant solely for Tatsumkai: Land at War, nothing else.
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Old 02-25-2007, 01:39 PM
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Default Re: Concerned

And this is reason enough to move it to "A forum for useless conversations, testing signatures, and flame wars."?

As far as my logic goes this threads position is more closely related to T:LAT than a forum of mindless drivel.
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Old 02-25-2007, 01:40 PM
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Default Re: Concerned

I will move it to General, however if this turns into a flame war or a way to insult us after we have worked very hard, its coming back to the 'et cetera' forum.
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Old 02-25-2007, 01:44 PM
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Default Re: Concerned

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sykoi View Post
I moved it here as it didn't discuss Tatsumaki, it discussed Eyes Out Entertainment and the development of Tatsumaki.
The Tatsumaki forum is meant solely for Tatsumkai: Land at War, nothing else.
So your original basis for moving the thread was flawed then? I'm not trying to poke holes but unconsidered decisions annoy me.
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Old 02-25-2007, 01:49 PM
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Default Re: Concerned

I will start off by saying how appalled I am that you moved this post to et cetera. I expressed my concerns with utmost sincerity and seriousness and you brush it aside to a forum for useless conversations and flame wars. As much as you may be offended and enraged by my post, I would hardly consider your personal emotions to be enough justification for such action.

Sykoi I do not mean to disrespect you, and I am sorry that you understood it that way. I would think it odd to say this wasn't at least slightly expected, and you must understand that we are not all as knowledgeable on the matter as you are. Therefor you would do well to restrain your frustration and if nothing else dismiss the post entirely as a pointless show of ignorance. Yet it is only fair to allow serious discussion for matter like this. It would be disappointing should you adopt the oppressive forum policies of a company such as SOE.

I understand that real life does get in the way of a project like this. This begs the question of whether the project is altogether far too ambitious, regardless of the reasons for the lack of time, money and skilled workers. Excuses are no substitute. Noble as your quest may be, a complete, unique, and successful mmorpg with an entirely new engine is no small task.

EDIT:Thank you for moving this to a more appropriate forum. I forgot to mention than now that I am enlightened on the issue of the website, I will mock it no more. It was the initial appearance of the website and the last minute plea for suggestions with an "I've been doing it all wrong." which gave me my seemingly false impressions.
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Last edited by uzshka; 02-25-2007 at 02:01 PM. Reason: Avoiding double post.
 


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