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  #11  
Old 02-25-2007, 01:53 PM
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Default Re: Concerned

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sykoi View Post
I will move it to General, however if this turns into a flame war or a way to insult us after we have worked very hard, its coming back to the 'et cetera' forum.
The only person who seems to be consider the purpose of the post is to insult Tatsumaki is you. To me it seems like a perfectly sensible discussion albeit with one steaming administrator.
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  #12  
Old 02-25-2007, 02:01 PM
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Default Re: Concerned

Quote:
I understand that real life does get in the way of a project like this. This begs the question of whether the project is altogether far too ambitious, regardless of the reasons for the lack of time, money and skilled workers. Excuses are no substitute. Noble as your quest may be, a complete, unique, and successful mmorpg with an entirely new engine is no small task.
I appreciate the concern, however we are making quite a bit of progress... In fact our actual engine is, according to the man who has worked on it for the past year, created it from scratch, and does this type of thing for a living, "99% done"... So as far as the engine goes - no, its not too ambitious.

As for the game itself, not one of us is willing to give up on it, ever - for any reason. And as ambitious as it sounds, when you start thinking about the various features we have planned logically, they're actually a bit easier than most MMOs on the market. Take the crafting system for instance - sounds complex, right? Well... The initial system is, however after that its just a matter of adding new items to create more end results than most RPGs out there.
And the combat system? Like crafting, the initial system may be complex - but after that its just menial work, that we're opening up to the user as well.

As hard as it may be to believe, I've been planning Tatsumaki for years, and was even planning it in my free time before we had even started... I've made sure that everyone we hire is dedicated, loves the project, and is good at what they do.
And while the initial start up is a giant leap, the expansion onto other various items is easy compared to it, and other games in the genre.

And to further expand on this thought, I thought I would mention that we're planning on going the route of "Asheron's Call", and continuously releasing various new things in monthly updates, after release. Does this mean the game will be released incomplete? No, but we will be expanding upon it anyways.


Quote:
I will start off by saying how appalled I am that you moved this post to et cetera. I expressed my concerns with utmost sincerity and seriousness and you brush it aside to a forum for useless conversations and flame wars. As much as you may be offended and enraged by my post, I would hardly consider your personal emotions to be enough justification for such action.
Well quite frankly, most places would simply delete your post... I simply moved yours because, at the time, it seemed as if it was a flame directed towards our hard work, and after the recent "Tatsumaki is a scam" trolls, who can blame me?


Quote:
and you must understand that we are not all as knowledgeable on the matter as you are.
The new site is meant to change all this... And while we're having some problems getting a video up (Filefront does not currently have an API to tie in with our system), we will try to get a few up, as well as more content up as soon as we can.


Quote:
The only person who seems to be consider the purpose of the post is to insult Tatsumaki is you. To me it seems like a perfectly sensible discussion albeit with one steaming administrator.
I am steaming because I have put all of my life, money and hard work into Tatsumaki, as has everyone who works on it. I apologize for losing my temper, however I do not appreciate ignorance being encouraged for something I care so much about. I moved it to et cetera, and "steamed", because I wanted to squash any misconceptions before they had a chance to become solidified in the public's eye... We've been working our asses off, but a single person can come by and post in a public area, thus resulting in that post being the first thing anyone sees and solidifying their view of the game without knowing the facts.


Quote:
So your original basis for moving the thread was flawed then? I'm not trying to poke holes but unconsidered decisions annoy me.
My decision was not flawed, however I did not wish an all out war to be started in a forum meant for intelligent discussion on various ideas related to Tatsumaki.
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  #13  
Old 02-25-2007, 02:11 PM
Arakawa Nobuaki Arakawa Nobuaki is offline
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Default Re: Concerned

Too ambitious, hardly. I can only compare it with the Star Wars Combine. Agreed, they don't use a 3D engine there, but the client is not your next-door-done-within-a-couple-of-weeks thing that many use (in fact, they had different clients over the years) and they do have ~3,000 active players. Plus, the game is quite complex. The Combine is also made by people in their free time, it's been around 7, 8 years and is far from finished yet. For example, there is no combat in the game as of yet and it took them several years to implement something as simple as upgrading your skills. Yet, as mentioned before, there's some 3,000 active players around regularly.

SOE's "oppressive" forum policy is there for a reason. I've seen countless of times where people, who were not even playing Galaxies anymore, were outright bitching and flaming on the SOE board. Certainly mods begin to act more aggressive if something like this happens several times. And frankly, I would outright permanently ban such people. SOE mods are quite nice in that matter, IMO. I can't believe I'm defending SOE, however, I know myself what being mod or even admin means. It's not necessarily fun and more than often pretty annpying and hard work. Sometimes you get to deal with people who're so incredibly stupid that you wonder why they're still alive. And then you get the nice trolls, bitchers, moaners, etc. And then comes the point when you say "**** them" and start turning into a "mod nazi" (I got called that once) when you adapt the philosphy "...or else". As for the initial post, I agree with Sykoi. Many places would have just deleted it. Other players would also have added a warning to you.

Additionally, none of us is really a "paying customer". We don't really have a right to get updates. Heck, I'm also watching Stargate Worlds (again, yes), and frankly... when I look at their website and their updates and consider these guys are a professional company that paid millions for the SG-1/SGA license... Let me just say... it doesn't really phase me either. There's not much around, a few screenshots, mainly concept art, a little information about player classes, but that's it. The website's not really breathtaking either. But that's pretty normal for any project that has either barely entered alpha or not even any testing stage at all. Age of Conan, same thing. Not much info, a clean, small, neat website, but nothing spectacular either.

Additionally... well, let me just say that I took the comment about the "poor cookie cutter" website as somewhat disrespecting.

A project of such size, whether with a 3D client or not, takes time. That's how it is. And the crew doesn't always update with everything they made progress in at any given time. It takes time. Frankly, if EOE would update us every time they'd make progress with something, they'd spend more time updating us than actually working on the project.
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  #14  
Old 02-25-2007, 02:19 PM
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Default Re: Concerned

Thank you for this reply Sykoi, it has done much to renew my confidence in you and your team far more than your earlier one.

Also, I will forgive you for your original rash actions towards this post and I appreciate the fact that you took the time to return to it seemingly free from your original frustration, where many other companies would have merely ignored or deleted it, as you said. However your actions were still motivated mainly by the anger my post caused, and it is hardly fair to compare this post to the "Tatsumaki is a scam" posts.

Appreciated also is the general attention you have given this post, regardless of the initial feedback. I remember many a well crafted post of disgruntlement on the Star Wars Galaxies forums which were deleted, locked and/or ignored.
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  #15  
Old 02-25-2007, 02:22 PM
Arakawa Nobuaki Arakawa Nobuaki is offline
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Default Re: Concerned

And I remember many well crafted posts on Galaxies that turned into outright bitching, moaning and flaming of the game and it's devs, often by people who were not playing anymore. That mods take harsh actions after while whenever such a post pops up is not a surprise. I'd do it too.
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  #16  
Old 02-25-2007, 02:41 PM
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Default Re: Concerned

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arakawa Nobuaki View Post
Too ambitious, hardly. I can only compare it with the Star Wars Combine. Agreed, they don't use a 3D engine there, but the client is not your next-door-done-within-a-couple-of-weeks thing that many use (in fact, they had different clients over the years) and they do have ~3,000 active players. Plus, the game is quite complex. The Combine is also made by people in their free time, it's been around 7, 8 years and is far from finished yet. For example, there is no combat in the game as of yet and it took them several years to implement something as simple as upgrading your skills. Yet, as mentioned before, there's some 3,000 active players around regularly.

SOE's "oppressive" forum policy is there for a reason. I've seen countless of times where people, who were not even playing Galaxies anymore, were outright bitching and flaming on the SOE board. Certainly mods begin to act more aggressive if something like this happens several times. And frankly, I would outright permanently ban such people. SOE mods are quite nice in that matter, IMO. I can't believe I'm defending SOE, however, I know myself what being mod or even admin means. It's not necessarily fun and more than often pretty annpying and hard work. Sometimes you get to deal with people who're so incredibly stupid that you wonder why they're still alive. And then you get the nice trolls, bitchers, moaners, etc. And then comes the point when you say "**** them" and start turning into a "mod nazi" (I got called that once) when you adapt the philosphy "...or else". As for the initial post, I agree with Sykoi. Many places would have just deleted it. Other players would also have added a warning to you.

Additionally, none of us is really a "paying customer". We don't really have a right to get updates. Heck, I'm also watching Stargate Worlds (again, yes), and frankly... when I look at their website and their updates and consider these guys are a professional company that paid millions for the SG-1/SGA license... Let me just say... it doesn't really phase me either. There's not much around, a few screenshots, mainly concept art, a little information about player classes, but that's it. The website's not really breathtaking either. But that's pretty normal for any project that has either barely entered alpha or not even any testing stage at all. Age of Conan, same thing. Not much info, a clean, small, neat website, but nothing spectacular either.

Additionally... well, let me just say that I took the comment about the "poor cookie cutter" website as somewhat disrespecting.

A project of such size, whether with a 3D client or not, takes time. That's how it is. And the crew doesn't always update with everything they made progress in at any given time. It takes time. Frankly, if EOE would update us every time they'd make progress with something, they'd spend more time updating us than actually working on the project.
I'm sorry but to me this Star Wars Combine seems like a bit of a poor comparison considering the rather minimal similarities. I'd rather not go into that right now.

And yes I agree with you there are many people who ***** and flame on the SWG forums, but there are also many intelligent criticisms of the game which dont hurt anyone, although it must be admitted many of these threads do turn ugly. Nowadays these criticisms are obviously far less relevant than at the time the NGE was released. Anyway, better stay on topic and leave this issue to the people already arguing about it.

About your mention of Stargate worlds. The whole initial reason for concern was the lack of reasons to believe in this mmorpg. SGW is being developed by professionals, has plenty of funding, a super brand and many partners and whatnot. Its not hard to believe in it. Yep, life ain't fair.

Age Of Conan is in my opinion very spectacular indeed. Loads of amazing screenshots and videos, craploads of positive press and heap of awards to show off. Perhaps you just haven't checked on their progress recently.

I'm a bit sick of hearing this "oh if they release updates they wont get the game done" This is probably only my opinion but I wouldn't mind a post every now and then with a little of what the devs have been up to. Just to give us the feeling that everything is rolling along. I would also think its in the best interests of the company to throw us a bone every now and then, keep us drooling. Although, I don't think I am in a position to tell eoe what they should and should not do.
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  #17  
Old 02-25-2007, 02:44 PM
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Default Re: Concerned

Uzshka, I need to ask, but why are you so concerned about the lack of progress? What do you exactly find so disturbing and unsettling about it, because as far as I can tell you haven't pre-ordered, so, you haven't invested into the actual development process. How can you then turn around and criticize? You're not concerned about your own money, which I would understand, so I'm just trying to find your logic behind this whole post. (Sorry if I sound aggressive, I'm not trying to be )

You also have to realize when you write posts like this you ARE, whether you realize it or not, hurting the community by putting doubt in everyone's mind. Why should people then help and pre-order when one of the long time forum members is doubting what is being accomplished? Instead, it would have been better to address this to Sykoi in a PM and if he didn't help you or settle your concerns, you then publicly state what it is you're troubled about.

Quote:
This is probably only my opinion but I wouldn't mind a post every now and then with a little of what the devs have been up to.
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  #18  
Old 02-25-2007, 03:06 PM
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Default Re: Concerned

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sykoi View Post
My decision was not flawed, however I did not wish an all out war to be started in a forum meant for intelligent discussion on various ideas related to Tatsumaki.
So why did you change it back? It's one thing to make an unconsidered decision but another to not stick by it.
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  #19  
Old 02-25-2007, 03:21 PM
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Default Re: Concerned

Ojwk, please just let it go, Sykoi was mistaken, he was trying to protect his work and others. Whether his decision was flawed or not, in order to satisfy others he gave in to their wishes, what good is it to dwell on something when the matter has been solved?
  #20  
Old 02-25-2007, 03:22 PM
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Default Re: Concerned

Quote:
Originally Posted by uzshka
I find it slightly disconcerting that EOE, a seemingly competent company, is having trouble raising a measly $129.
I don't know what world you are from, but $129 is quite a large chunk of money.

Quote:
Originally Posted by uzshka
The amount of evidence to support any progress certainly does not warrant an appeal for money from customers who have already donated large amounts of money.
People "who have already donated large amounts of money" already have the evidence they need to know if they should help out or not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by uzshka
I also find it concerning that people who have pre ordered apparently receive more updates, while regular members seem to be in the dark.
The money from pre-ordering goes toward keeping EOE alive, people who help like that, and have that much faith in the game, should receive at least a bit more than people who just sit there and help in no apparent way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by uzshka
I personally find little sense in pre ordering a product when I have very little assurance I will get my money’s worth, if anything at all.
The decision of someone to pre-order is based on how much faith the person has in EOE and in Tatsumaki.

Quote:
Originally Posted by uzshka
It is very disappointing that the company is forced rely on its relatively very small community to carry its financial burden.
EOE isn't one of those big companies that has all the funding in the world. Its a group of people who got together, and seriously decided to put plenty of hard work and effort into a game. All of that money goes to paying for a server for the site, game and everything else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by uzshka
Initially I was under the impression that Tatsumaki was being developed by a competent body of developers.
And it is being developed by a competent body of developers. But it is a very small body of developers compared from many of the other MMORPGS out there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by uzshka
The Wiki promised a lot but I am starting to wonder if Tatsumaki will ever be completed. Sykoi you said it yourself, "Once again we're faced with a money problem..." time after time appeals for money are made; unfortunately evidence of progress is not.
In the past two and a half years that I have been a member of this community, Sykoi has begged for money only twice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by uzshka
The lack of updates certainly contributes to a growing feeling of amateurishness that I feel about EOE and what updates are published are unimpressive and uninteresting. The most significant part of Tatsumaki appears to be the forums and the various mini projects that surround it, many of which are unfinished and/or abandoned. The final straw was when Sykoi asked for help on the website. While this seems somewhat unprofessional itself, the real disappointment was that the website which had apparently been in development for some time was as good as nothing, and all that we are left with is a poor cookie cutter template.
The people at EOE spend most of their time actually working on the game instead of worrying about updates, websites, and forums. And as for the comment about "the mini projects surrounding it", just because they seemed abandoned, doesn't mean that they are. The anime project is currently on my over-cluttered drawing board, being worked out, re-written a bit, and drawn out. I've got my studies, real life, that, and the Tatsumaki fansite that I have been working on all on there. When people have that much to do, they worry about actually doing it, and not about proving to other people that they are doing it.
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